Alright, this is for HS coaches only. What are your thoughts about the new OSAA plan for wrestling next year?
Here's your chance to voice your ideas, thoughts, etc in a professional manner and we can take this to the OSAA and see what they think. We simply haven't been very organized in our approach with what we want as a sport. We have a regular group of coaches who say and do things, but we need everyone to voice an opinion. Everyone's opinion matters for our sport.
When posting, please use your real name and what HS you coach at. Be professional in your responses and take every post as serious, whether you agree with it or not. From here, we can use this info provided, get a overall feel for what coaches want and take this to the OSAA. Remember, this is for HS coaches only.
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11 comments:
When we were sold on the multi class system, it was with the belief that it would be good for wrestling, increase numbers, and have the sport grow. It has been 4 years, my numbers are the same, if not a little lower than normal, and all it has done is water down the competition at the state level. I love that I have kids place over the past 4 years, that if the classes had not been separated, would not have - but at what expense.
I would like to submit a proposal like the one Rock put together - 6a/5a combined, 4a separate, 1/2/3a together - and see if the OSAA will listen.
From JD Alley on the subject matter.
That is how we proposed it. However the OSAA decided to let each region determine the format to qualify for the final State tourney. Our plan was and still is to wrestle our regular district and bring enough kids from each district to make a full regional bracket that could be run in one day. Most likely a 12 or 16 man bracket. 5A is the most extreme with six leagues and two regions. If you qualify 5 from each league that makes a 15 man regional bracket sending two groups of eight on to the final State tourney. This could certainly add some non refunded costs to individual schools attending the regional tournament. However it is the best system we have ever had to get the right kids into the final State bracket. No more leaving the fourth best kid in the State home because he could not get out of district and it probably solves some of the weak league aurguments. To be clear we in no way promoted a super regional with 19 teams and 38 wrestlers in a bracket. We hope to see the district format we have been using continue. It also makes wrestling more appealing to the OSAA by reduceing the cost of State by cutting a full day from the event. Stay tuned we are not done working out the details. J.D. Alley
Well, if the question is whether or not to go with a regional qualifier, I have mixed feelings. As coach of a team that is good enough to win a district title, but not a state title, I really do not want to have that opportunity for a "team" victory taken from the kids. This is especially true of the kid that fights hard for a 5th place finish.
Now if we flash back to the days when we had Culver, Willamina, Sheridan, Neah-Kah-Nie, etc in our district, we left potential state placers at home. It happened every year. The 6 regional qualifiers would definitely eliminate that problem.
Bottom line on the competitiveness issue, this new proposal would be good for the strong teams and good for the tough individuals. It would all but eliminate "local" tradition for the small schools unless there was some effort made to have a league tournament (for us, the albeit meaningless West Valley League Championship would be Dayton, Colton, Gervais, Amity, Sheridan and Willamina).
Now, let's talk economics: a regional tournament will require an additional overnight stay for most teams. We already have to do this when district is in Waldport or Toledo, but this seems to be a significant cost factor that needs to be considered. Of course, there is the possibility of regional ticket sales at.
As far as the multiple classifications thing goes, I don't think that is even up for discussion. We can talk about "watered down" and "one state champion" all we want, but for the vast majority of small schools, there is no fairness there. The whole purpose of the classification system is competative fairness. While Hanson from Riverside might be able to compete and beat anyone in 6A, your typical 3A wrestler is not gonna have the guys in the room that Roseburg or Newberg have to work out with every day. There are obvious exceptions at every level. We have had guys at Dayton I would have loved to throw into a statewide bracket. But, would Amity have started a wrestling team 10 years ago if the odds of having even a state placer were so stacked against them? I don't think so.
I am sure I will have more definitive thoughts as the discussion continues.
Rob Henry, Dayton High School
Great post Rob. You made a lot of good points.
OK. The clarifying comments made by JD make this more...clear. After reading the OSAA minutes, I was pondering the logistics of the Regional tournament, as in an 18-team tournament (Although, to be fair, JD and I both remember our district tournaments before the Classification split. We consistantly had more than a dozen teams, and it always worked out OK.).
My biggest problem with the new proposal at this point is the fact that it is not excempt from the 40-match limit. As some of you may not know, small school teams do not typically compete in dual meets, especially one-on-one. Every year, we have to sit wrestlers to avoid the match limit. To be fair, I just have a problem with the 40-match limit altogether.
The 40 match count limit needs to be changed to about 48 and allow for 6 matches to be wrestled in a day, instead of 5. Damn near every top state does this, so why can't we?
Also, should we have more than 2 regions for 6A and 5A, to not only cut down on travel but to ensure we don't run into match count limits, if we in fact stay with 5 per day?
From Tillamook coach, Jaime Dixson
Here is the best proposals for 4A:
each region gets 6 - run a modified 16 man bracket
Region 1 (14)
Rossevelt
Astoria
Banks
Scappoose
Seaside
tillamook
Yamhill-Carlton
Brookings-Harbor
central
doughlas
newport
north bend
Siuslaw
Taft
Region 2 (14)
Cascade
Estacada
Gladstone
Molalla
North Marion
Stayton
Marshall
Baker
La Grande
McLoughlin
Ontario
Sisters
Crook County
Madras
Region 3 (14)
Cottage Grove
Elmira
junction City
La Pine
Plesant Hill
Sweet Home
Philomath
Henley
Hidden valley
Illionis Valley
North Valley
Phoenix
Sutherlin
South Umpqua
OR
6 regions - each region gets 3 - run a modified 16 man bracket
#1
Rossevelt
Astoria
Banks
Scappoose
Seaside
tillamook
#2
Cascade
Estacada
Gladstone
Molalla
North Marion
Stayton
Marshall
#3
Brookings-Harbor
central
doughlas
newport
north bend
Siuslaw
Taft
#4
Cottage Grove
Elmira
junction City
La Pine
Plesant Hill
Sweet Home
Philomath
#5
Henley
Hidden valley
Illionis Valley
North Valley
Phoenix
Sutherlin
South Umpqua
#6
Baker
La Grande
McLoughlin
Ontario
Sisters
Crook County
Madras
OR
have 4 regions and each region will send 4 wrestlers
Region 1
Rossevelt
Astoria
Banks
Scappoose
Seaside
tillamook
Yamhill-Carlton
Marshall
Gladstone
Taft
Region 2
Baker
Cascade
Crook County
La Grande
Madras
McLoughlin
Ontario
Sisters
Stayton
North Marion
Molalla
Region 3
Brookings-Harbor
central
doughlas
newport
north bend
Siuslaw
Philomath
Sweet Home
junction City
Plesant Hill
Estacada
Region 4
Cottage Grove
Elmira
Henley
Hidden valley
Illionis Valley
La Pine
North Valley
Phoenix
South Umpqua
Sutherlin
The best proposal for a 3A/2A/1A combined region would be this:
You could take top 4 from each region and have a full 16 man bracket like everyone else in the state. You eliminate one tournament as well. Fuller brackets, closer/smarter travel for everyone.
Region 1
Chemawa Braves
Clatskanie Tigers
Colton Vikings
Gervais Cougars
Neah-Kah-Nie Pirates
Rainier Columbians
Vernonia Loggers
Warrenton Warriors
Bonanza Antlers
Chiloquin Panthers
Culver Bulldogs
Gilchrist Grizzlies
Irrigon Knights
Lakeview Honkers
North Lake Cowboys
Region 2
Amity Warriors
Dayton Pirates
Harrisburg Eagles
Jefferson Lions
Santiam Christian Eagles
Sheridan Spartans
Toledo Boomers
Waldport Irish
Willamina Bulldogs
Alsea Wolverines
Central Linn Cobras
Corbett Cardinals
Eddyville Charter Eagles
Knappa Loggers
Monroe Dragons
Nestucca Bobcats
Perrydale Pirates
Santiam Wolverines
Scio Loggers
Siletz Valley Warriors
Region 3
Bandon Tigers Pacific
Cascade Christian Challengers
Coquille Red Devils
Creswell Bulldogs
Glide Wildcats
Gold Beach Panthers
Myrtle Point Bobcats
Reedsport Braves
Rogue River Chieftains
Illinois Valley
Glendale Pirates
Lowell Devils
McKenzie Eagles
Mohawk Indians
North Douglas Warriors Yoncalla
Oakland Oakers
Oakridge Warriors
Riddle Irish
Yoncalla Eagles
Region 4
Burns Hilanders
Grant Union Prospectors
Nyssa Bulldogs
Riverside Pirates
Vale Vikings
Adrian Antelopes
Cove Leopards Union
Crane Mustangs
Elgin Huskies
Enterprise Outlaws/Wallowa
Heppner Mustangs
Huntington Locomotives
Imbler Panthers
Joseph Eagles
Pine Eagle Spartans
Union Bobcats
Wallowa Cougars
I like the 4 region idea with top four going to create a 16 man bracket. I think that would work for 4A and down. 5A and 6A people can figure out what is best for them since I am not as familiar with those programs and their geographic areas. I think this mentality that we treat each classification the same may not be the best. The bigger schools may have different needs than the smaller schools.
The last post was from Dave Boor of Riverside.
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